The New Honda Civic Type R Needs A CVT

There's no denying that the new Civic Type R is an amazing hot hatch, but Honda made a mistake by making it manual-only and keeping their new CVT away from it

Could you possibly come up with a headline that would cause more controversy amongst petrolheads? Doubtful.

But my job here isn’t to cause an angry mob to come after me with keyboard torches and keyboard pitchforks. In fact, I am pretty confident that I have a sensible argument, at least in part. Part one of my argument is probably not all that controversial: Honda dropped the ball by making their new Civic Type R with only a 6-speed manual transmission.

The New Honda Civic Type R Needs A CVT

Don’t get me wrong—I love manuals just as much as anyone on this website. In fact, I bought my NA Miata largely because of its manual gearbox. After many gear changes in that thing, I am willing to say that cog-swapping the little 5-speed shifter is one of the great experiences a petrolhead could ever hope to have. But, I do have to admit, it’s not perfect 100% of the time. This is particularly true in the city, where even the most forgiving clutch will take a beating during normal day-to-day usage.

Although I can’t say that I’ve driven the new Type R myself, I’m willing to bet that I’d rather have the super-easy clutch from my Miata in town. Trust me, getting through major road congestion with a racing clutch is not fun at all. In fact, you might even grow tired of it in light city traffic. I get that this is the price of admission for buying a sportscar, but most people who buy a Type R (or any other hot hatch, for that matter) are actually going to use it primarily in the real world.

The New Honda Civic Type R Needs A CVT

It’s at this point where a few of you might be thinking “okay, fair enough, maybe Kyle’s got a point.” There’s still a high probability that even the vast majority of people in this camp think that I am either stupid, intoxicated, or both; for suggesting that Honda should spec the Type R with potentially the most unloved transaxle in the history of motoring. Certainly, if I were to make this statement ten years ago, everyone in the car community would have blown a snot bubble. Quite a few petrolheads will still call it blasphemous. Yet, I call it the logical thing to do.

The New Honda Civic Type R Needs A CVT

Yes, I am well aware that the continuously-variable transmission is the same gearbox that Toyota uses for the Prius. In fact, I have driven a Prius; as well as a couple of other vehicles with CVTs equipped. I get where all the hate comes from: they’re strangely noisy, uninvolving, and just plain vanilla. The cars I drove were older and, to the amusement of CVT-haters, pretty slow and unresponsive. But if you think that everything equipped with a CVT must be painfully boring, you should go and drive a snowmobile. I promise you, those are pretty far from boring.

But even if all you cared about was performance, could you justify buying a CVT Type R over the fabulous 6-speed manual version? We won’t know that for sure until Honda builds a prototype, but there’s evidence to suggest that you might want to have the slushbox on the track. A recent Motor Trend test of the manual-equipped 2017 Honda Civic Sport Hatchback yielded a 0-60mph time of 7.5 seconds. Incredibly, a similar Civic Hatchback equipped with a CVT will get the job done in only 6.8 seconds. At this point, you might begin to suspect that there must be a difference in the powertrains of these two cars. In fact, there is. They both come equipped with a 1.5-litre turbocharged 4-cylinder, but the slower Sport model produces six more horsepower. Go figure.

Here's a similar test of two nearly identical Civics (save for the gearbox) conducted by two Chinese journalists. Similarly, the CVT was slightly quicker to 100 km/h.
Here's a similar test of two nearly identical Civics (save for the gearbox…

Of course, stick-shifters will be quick to point out that, because you can’t hit 60mph in 2nd gear, you lose some time by changing gears in the manual version. Even so, I think that the CVT could, in theory, still be quicker. In a straight line, the CVT has the advantage of smoothly and constantly adjusting through seemingly infinite “gears”. This means that you should be able to put your foot to the floor and let the CVT work to keep the engine at its peak power band. In a car with a turbocharged engine, this means that you can hit boost and stay there. Once again, you can experience this phenomenon on a snowmobile.

On a race track with actual corners, that advantage starts to disappear. But all hope is not lost. Since most CVT-equipped cars are programmed to operate at several preset gear ratios (to simulate a traditional automatic gearbox), flappy paddles can still give you some manual control of the gearbox. I had a chance to try this out in my buddy’s Mitsubishi non-Evolution Lancer. I was able to give a willing challenger in a Ford Focus ST a run for the money at the lights. Despite a handicap of 100 horsepower, I was able to keep pace because I could hit 70 km/h in “1st gear”. Shifting into “2nd” didn’t really feel all that different from a conventional automatic; and although the ST would have wiped the floor with me if we started exceeding the speed limit, it quickly became clear to me that CVTs have turned a corner.

The New Honda Civic Type R Needs A CVT

Ironically, the manufacturer that seems to be leading the continuously-variable revolution is Honda. Enthusiasts were caught off-guard when they put their chips on the controversial CVT, but many will admit that the gamble paid off for the legendary Japanese carmaker. Because of them, the CVT is as good as it’s ever been; and I’m willing to bet that it’s only going to get better. The way I see it, the potential almost makes me foam at the mouth.

But for those that just want to feel the mechanical stimulation of Honda’s legendary manual gearbox, nothing else will do. And I get that. But it’s clear that Honda missed an opportunity to silence the CVT-haters of the world; and even more clear that they missed an easy chance to capture some more of the hot-hatch market share. Make no mistake, the latest Civic Type R is mind-bogglingly amazing. But I’m left to wonder if our nostalgia-driven obsession for manual gearboxes is keeping us from seeing the hot Honda’s full potential.

Do you think I’m on to something here? Or am I just on something? Let’s hear your opinions in the comments below!

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Comments

Anonymous

In that same spirit … Another mistake they made is that it is not electric.

07/31/2017 - 09:16 |
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Anonymous

You made me think about CVT’s and how it’s evolving, improving in every iteration made but just like what Mk7Golfer said, that “it “needs” a CVT and saying “Honda made a mistake by making it manual only” is just over the top.” And i couldn’t agree with him more.

I would get the R mainly because it comes in Stick. Because only stick (in my opinion) gives the purest driving experience. Emotional even.

07/31/2017 - 09:52 |
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Anonymous

In reply to by Anonymous (not verified)

Lots of cars come with stick.

08/02/2017 - 08:33 |
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5:19.55

Maybe because they implemented the cvt in other cars (i mean honda), they know more than anyone why it doesn’t fit the type r…

07/31/2017 - 10:17 |
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They say they didn’t because of weight.

08/02/2017 - 08:32 |
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Car Guy Campbell

I have a NA MX5 & FK2 Type-R (the outgoing model) and believe it or not the clutch is lighter in the Honda, the mx5 is not fitted with a racing clutch or anything either.

On top of that Honda made the flywheel on the FK8 about 6kg’s lighter and opted for a single mass rather than the FK2 dual mass 14kg fly.

Overall I can still somewhat see the point of this post, but what Honda has done is kept the heritage alive, 4 seats instead of 5, manual instead of auto, fwd instead of four etc etc.
This is something that matters to Honda as a brand, they have been associated with fwd manuals since the 90s, why change now?

07/31/2017 - 11:14 |
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Anonymous

The Type R brand has always been about driver involvement… few of them have been the fastest-accelerating cars in the class. This is why they have always been manual only… and also why the Civic Type R should continue being a manual-only proposition.

07/31/2017 - 12:48 |
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Anonymous

Can a CVT hold up to that much horsepower? Even though the technology has advanced quite a bit, I think it still has its limitations with how much horsepower it can “reliably” handle.

07/31/2017 - 16:50 |
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Anonymous

In reply to by Anonymous (not verified)

They were used in F1 cars some years ago.

08/02/2017 - 08:24 |
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White Comet

Realistically, who the hell put their deposit at the dealership a few weeks ahead, and after some fighting battle with dealer mark-up, several weeks later, they arrive get super excited to pick up their CVT-equipped Type R?

The types of people who are, literally right now, currently fighting to get their hands on the Type R are mostly give zero f**k about any best CVT in the world.

If the CTR’s targeted audience is the typical dads who are just looking for a bit more speed when the wife allows, yes, CVT/DTC makes sense. But look, Honda made the CTR looks “outrageously racy” and advertise it to target the Type R fans and car enthusiasts, for those audience that they’re catering to, 6MT is the only choice that these people would care about.

07/31/2017 - 18:05 |
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The article makes sense.
I would buy a Type R with dual-clutch/CVT if it is a bit more understated.
Just for bragging right, I find that explaining to people a million time why I picked auto is a lot more effort than me shifting gear through standing traffic for 45 min daily.

My 2-cents.
I shift gear daily a 2016 STI everyday of the week in busy traffic congestion. Zero complain. I’d still pick a manual until I my body can no longer shift gears hahaha

07/31/2017 - 18:13 |
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Wow. Typical dads looking for a bit of speed when the wife allows?

You watch too many bad sitcoms mate.

08/04/2017 - 14:24 |
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Anonymous

I read it all, and although I respect your right to have an opinion and to share one, it’s pretty idiotic. It reminds me of doug demuro trying to get views by posting something controversial. In your case, let the real enthusiasts enjoy their cars please! Please, please, please! You can get your CVT Si and get a tune/chip and enjoy your CVT to your little hearts’ content. But leave the rest of us alone. Did you rain on the S2000’s parade when it was released only with a manual? Probably not, because you were probably not even able to legally drive at that point you little squirt.

Nobody cares if automatics and CVT’s are faster. Only someone sitting behind a keyboard and monitor cares about that, or someone who sees a car only as a tool to move from point A to B, or should I say race from point A to point B in some idiotic, reckless fashion? Did you know the reason Audi is finally starting to limit their manual transmission cars after decades? It’s because of the automatic driver assist programs they want to implement across the board. That’s sad, but let me guess, you love the idea of automatic driving?

You remind me of gamer girls or car girls. They jump into a scene because they think it’s cool and it’s where the trend is, but they don’t actually have a passion for games or cars. You are riding the trend (like so many others) of attaching yourself to cars not because you actually find it interesting, but because you think you’re supposed to find it interesting.

Here you have the company that makes the best manual transmission in the world, and you take that beautiful fruit that Honda has blessed us with and spit upon it and say you want a different piece of fruit. Freaking millennial aren’t you?

My advice: Stop pretending you’re passionate about cars, and go find an ACTUAL passion, something that you do more than just talk about, something you feel and want on a regular basis, not just the attention you get from being associated with it. Look around you, the reason people own new Lamborghinis has nothing to do with passion, but everything to do with fashion, and of course money. Look at the guy who owns a 30 year old car and treat it like it was a Lamborghini or Ferrari. That guy is the one that is actually passionate about cars.

Anyway, you got people to respond to your clickbait, and that’s probably all your really wanted was to stir the pot with your idiocy. Good job!

07/31/2017 - 19:33 |
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Anonymous

In reply to by Anonymous (not verified)

This.

08/02/2017 - 13:04 |
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Anonymous

In reply to by Anonymous (not verified)

Huh. A personal. That was a proportional response to a thing about a car.

Classy.

08/04/2017 - 14:21 |
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Ricardo Mercio

I actually had a blog post about the subject a while back. The Type R has a very peaky engine, meaning it can deeply benefit from staying at peak power the entire time, and CVT’s seem to be the transmission of the future, sadly. It’d be amusing to see a manual CVT where the ratio is still continuous, and you “shift” by adjusting an analog knob or lever to get exactly whatever ratio you wish for. Though in truth, they’re most efficient when computerized. It doesn’t beat the fun of a manual, but the Type R is as close to time attack as any hatch is getting any time soon, and the CVT seems like a sure-fire bet for cutting lap times, specially given Honda’s rapid advancement of their efficiency and power threshold.

07/31/2017 - 21:36 |
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Anonymous

I would say just keep the manual as a base variant. Since Honda is working on another variant for the Type R, it needs more power, AWD, and a DCT used on the Honda “Dynamic Study” prototype, which is a Civic Sedan, still using the same 1.5 turbo engine, but with an 8 speed DCT

08/01/2017 - 07:29 |
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